Sept. 25, 2025

Mary Lambert’s Tempest of Liberation: Same Love to Self-Love

Mary Lambert’s Tempest of Liberation: Same Love to Self-Love

Send us a text Mary Lambert joins us for a powerful, intimate, and joyful conversation that bridges music, activism, and radical self-love. From her breakout with Same Love to her new anthem The Tempest, Mary shares how art becomes resistance and why fat liberation is at the heart of her work. We dive into: The story and politics behind The Tempest and why every lyric matters.How Mary’s journey through poetry, community, and visibility shaped her fat liberation voice.Building the Fat Friendly...

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Season 4

Send us a text

Mary Lambert joins us for a powerful, intimate, and joyful conversation that bridges music, activism, and radical self-love. From her breakout with Same Love to her new anthem The Tempest, Mary shares how art becomes resistance and why fat liberation is at the heart of her work.

We dive into:

  • The story and politics behind The Tempest and why every lyric matters.
  • How Mary’s journey through poetry, community, and visibility shaped her fat liberation voice.
  • Building the Fat Friendly Medical Provider Directory and fighting for healthcare access.
  • Intimacy, desire, and why pleasure isn’t an act of charity, it’s liberation.
  • The power of workshops like Everybody Is A Babe to dismantle shame and spark joy.

Mary also gets candid about sex toys (yes, “The Boss” makes an appearance), queer joy, playlists for pleasure, and how choosing authenticity has transformed her life.

✨ This episode is a reminder that liberation isn’t just personal, it’s collective, messy, sexy, and revolutionary.

Learn more about Mary at marylambertsings.com

Support the show

BigSexyChat.com appreciates you and our community. We do this for you, so if you ever have any ideas about a subject we can discuss for you, email us at bigsexychatpod@gmail.com.

You can find us on Facebook and Instagram as BigSexyChat.
Twitter (who knows how long we will stay there) is BigSexyChatPod

Check out our merch at www.BigSexyTees.com (credit to Toni Tails for setting this up for us!)

Chrystal also sells sex toys via her website BlissConnection.com and you can use the code BSC20 for 20% off.

Big thanks to our Sponsor Liberator Bedroom Adventures. We ADORE the products from Liberator. And, to be clear, we all loved their products even before they became a sponsor!

00:00 - Introducing Mary Lambert

08:41 - The Tempest: Challenging Authority Through Music

16:09 - Early Influences in Fat Liberation

29:16 - Authenticity vs. Capitalism

38:15 - Creating the Fat-Friendly Medical Directory

45:30 - Everybody Is a Babe Workshop

54:10 - Sexuality, Pleasure and Body Acceptance

01:00:34 - Healing from Trauma and Self-Love

WEBVTT

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Today on Big Sexy Chat, we are thrilled to welcome the incredible Mary Lambert.

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You probably first met her voice in Same Love with MacLemore and Ryan Lewis.

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And since then, she's been setting the world on fire with her music, poetry, and raw honesty.

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Mary is a singer, songwriter, poet, teacher, and activist who's turned vulnerability into power, blending art with fat liberation, radical self-love, and community healing.

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Her new song, The Tempest, is already shaking the walls, and we are so excited to dive into her story, her music, and her heart today.

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Hey, you made it!

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Ha!

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You're just in time for a little something juicy with crystal and murph.

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Talking fat.

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Sex big feels hot.

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We're breaking all the rules, babe.

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What you think?

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It's big.

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Sexy chair.

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Sexy chair.

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Let's go.

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Welcome back to Big Sexy Chat.

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This is Crystal, and today we have an extra special guest.

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We're so excited.

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Very, very well highly esteemed, well thought of sort of hero in the fat liberation world.

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We have Mary Lambert today.

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Hi, Mary.

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Hi.

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Thank you so much for your time and my beautiful and amazing co-host, Murph.

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Hi, Murph.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Mary, we are so excited to have you here.

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I'm so glad I'm here.

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This is I feel like this has been a long time coming.

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Like it just hasn't, it hasn't lined up schedule-wise or anything.

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It's like it's the now is the time, and there could not be a better time.

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Hello and Tempest.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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I just caught it the other day on Instagram.

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I was like, oh Lord, okay.

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This is gonna be a great and amazing interview.

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What a beautiful song.

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What a beautiful arrangement.

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Just everything.

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It's an anthem.

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Like it just, oh, it is like touch your soul kind of music.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, it was it's one of the best songs I've ever written.

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I think it was one of those ones where I just really was like, I want every line to matter.

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I want every line to be super intentional.

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And I got really into Shakespeare for a while.

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And I loved Shakespeare all through like high school when I discovered him, not to brag.

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Uh I feel like I kind of discovered him first.

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Yeah.

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And he was a little underground before I got um into him.

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Um but when I uh I took this like online course uh kind of studying each play, going into each play.

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And uh I really loved the Tempest.

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And I thought there were a lot of parallels between, you know, capitalism and colonialism and the way that men feel like they have domain over, you know, I mean, cis straight older white men, especially in Congress with power, that feel like they have domain over women's bodies, over people's bodies, over anything that they deem fit.

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And, you know, the Tempest has a lot of the that underlying message.

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And eventually, like the you know, the protagonist, like Prospero, eventually like understands to like, you know, that all things belong and he can't he shouldn't control everything.

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But it's like I kind of wrote the Tempest from the perspective of no, we sh we tell Prospero what to do.

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Yes, it's a new time, y'all.

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It's a new time.

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I want to start by saying that I re-listened to your interview with Plus Mommy Jen, who's a good friend of mine.

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And I was so excited to see that you actually are friends with some of my friends, like Sonia Renee Taylor and Denise Jolly.

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Um, we love Jen here at Kirby Girl.

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I love yeah, big sexy chat, not curvy girl.

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But um Jen and I met at the Body Love conference in Arizona in 2014, and that's why I became friends with Sonia Renee Taylor and Denise Jolly and and Jen.

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Oh, we all just love her, but that was a great interview.

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And um love a lot of my people in my world, my fat liberation world, are sort of knowing you about the whole um medical bullshit that we all put up with uh when you're fat.

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So for that reason, I I bow to you.

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Thank you for that and for your list, and it's amazing.

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And anyway, um I I just love Sonia Nae Taylor, her books, and they make she makes you think.

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She like really makes you think, and what an amazing person.

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Yes.

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It was, I mean, I got so spoiled so early.

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I was because I was in the poetry world, I was in the spoken word world doing slam when I was like 18.

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So Denise Jolly came up to me when I was 18 and was like, I love your poetry.

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I want you're a you know, you're a rock star.

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And um, and then I met Sonia doing poetry when I was like 20, 21, you know, and watching somebody um speak truth to power and talk about their body in such a, you know, an explicitly like radically loving way, as she does.

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Um it's just incredibly powerful.

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And Denise Jolly also had a photo series that like was really life-changing for me as well.

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So I had this almost like necessary upbringing to bring me closer to like fat liberation and understand collective liberation in that pursuit.

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They will definitely get you there.

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Um, just to brag, they were both in one of my lingerie fashion shows for fatties.

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And they were just so amazing.

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Just they own it.

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They they're not just talking it, they're they're they own it, they live in it, and they're just beautiful and smart and strong.

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And what an amazing way for you to grow up.

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Holy crap.

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Yeah, that's so neat.

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I'm can't.

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I bet it was a I bet it was a freaking blast.

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It was really great.

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Oh, a bunch of you know, 45 fat women in lingerie.

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We we got a lot of press, let's just say.

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Uh yeah, they do.

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Not very much, but they actually do.

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It's kind of shocking.

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I know.

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I know Merv had a question.

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I yeah, I was thinking of with the with the Temptist and what you know, the poetry of the things that you you're so um detailed in how you, you know, describe the the whole scenario.

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What's a line that you thought you were gonna cut, but you were just like, no, I'm keeping this?

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Oh yeah.

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I mean a couple.

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Because I was like, I could get in trouble for this.

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I was I've been very scared of like, okay, if this gets like, I don't know, discovered in hyper conservative circles.

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Like I I you know, I do have fear for sure.

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Um, but if my body was a gun, you'd give a shit about me.

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It feels really, you know, it's very in your face.

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And and I think to some people it feels radical.

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And to me, it just feels like that's just the truth, you know.

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That's what I'm just I'm just reading the room.

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Like I'm just I'm reading what's what's happening.

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That's you know, you can't tell me that that's not happening, that you'd you know, just the idea that you'd force people to give birth or sentence them to prison, or yeah, to criminalize them or criminalize the doctors that perform health care is just Looney Tunes, all of it.

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Absolutely.

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Well, and I think what's so nice about your work is that it's not just one thing, you know, it's like, okay, there's fat liberation, but there's liberation for so many other things too.

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And you pull no punches, like you're just like that.

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That's why I thought like anthem, because it's just like the rally cry of of this, what feels like this generation.

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Yeah, I appreciate that.

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I feel like having my first big song be Same Love, like really set me up for a kind of uh urgency of message and that people can handle a message that you think they might not be able to handle in a song.

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And, you know, touring around the world and watching crowds of people, girls, women singing, she keeps me warm and not caring what the pronoun is because it's just about love.

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Um really just it was instructive of how one could have a career and how I could make music that mattered to me, and that social messages don't have to be watered down.

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Like you can be explicit in your in your social messaging, and and poetry did that for me as well.

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So I'm just doing what feels the most natural.

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And I think when I was on a major label and you know, pursuing the I call hot dog eyes when you have the hot dog eyes and you want the thing and you want the fame, and you know, when you're yeah, when you're chasing that, you do feel like, okay, how do I compromise maybe my ultimate dream with getting the most people and getting the reach?

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And um I don't know, I got to a place where I was like, I I have to accept that I'm just kind of complex and that I have different things that I want to do.

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And I don't, I I can't stress over marketing my soul.

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Like I just can't, and not I'm not in the business of doing that.

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So I'm going to just go forward with who I am and just hope, like trust fall into that.

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I noticed in your interview with Jen, it felt like maybe you're on a little bit of a cusp of something.

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And then what I got from it, from you and your your history since then, just that you decided authenticity was the most important thing.

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Capitalism's great, but also capitalism sucks.

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Absolutely.

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And I realized that I don't know, it just feels really good to sleep at night, knowing that I like I am I'm really true to myself.

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And also that's a its own privilege.

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Like I feel like there are some people that don't have the privilege to make those like moral choices or ethical choices all the time.

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And I do think I think there are times in my life where I have it's gone too far where I'm like, I really could have used that money from Nestle and do something for their tea brand.

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But I at the time I was just like, no, I can't do anything with Nestle, like, you know, I I don't want to be a part of that.

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And at the time, you know, I ended up really struggling at that time.

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So I think it doesn't always um, it doesn't always it's not always easy, but like I think um they're on all the lists, man.

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Yeah, they're on every list.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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So for some people it's survival, and that makes sense.

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Like that they're having to make those choices sometimes that are morally like, ooh, this is kind of shady, you know, and it's hard to be that authentic self of like I'm not gonna water down for you and I'm not gonna change who I am.

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But I can see I'm I'm a therapist.

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So one of the things I see, you know, is like sometimes we have to survive in that environment, even when you know, we we know like I'm opposed to this or you know, I don't want to be entrenched in this.

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100%.

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Yeah, and I'm sure there was a way that I could have done it in a way that felt, you know, congruent with my beliefs.

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But I think at the time I was just like, I'm not in dire straits.

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I'm just I can't I can't do it, I can't take it.

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But I I know I think I feel like I've infuriated some people on my team.

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I'm like, no, sorry, I can't do it.

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I know you got me this opportunity, but it doesn't feel good.

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Well, also they want to get paid.

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So yeah, exactly.

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This is so weirdest kind of uh sort of take you off the line a little bit on this topic, but Murph will relate to this.

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My day job is removing facial hair.

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Oh, really?

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I do electrology, which of course I always say I remove your extra hair, but sometimes I'm like, Am I a part of the patriarchy?

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Because am I like, you can't wear a beard, ladies, you have to have fair, you know, you can't have any facial hair.

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And then I'm like, oh, but then like, no, but I'm only doing this to help people who want to remove their extra hair.

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And so I have that conflict sometimes too.

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I know I'm fine, I know it's okay.

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Yes, but sometimes I do sort of toss that around in my brain, like, am I being authentic?

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Is this fuck the patriarchy, Crystal?

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Rock a beard.

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But then I'm like, I I'm not ready to rock a beard.

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Yeah, totally.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah, I mean, I think that you're you're touching on something that, you know, I think happens in a lot of queer spaces with people who are like, I want to be able to have a beard and wear a dress and be accepted, and they are out of necessity to live their truest self, will do that.

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And there are people who are like, I it's too dangerous for me to do that, and I am it is easier for me to fit within the binary.

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I can't even explore that in my head because it's not safe.

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And that has to, I feel like there has to be space for people who are comfortable shifting the paradigm and want, like, you know, are okay, comfortable, maybe not comfortable, but just accept it as a necessary part of collective liberation to live authentically and present themselves congruent with who they are internally, and people who are like, I don't feel comfortable doing that, and that's fine, you know.

00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:00.480
Yeah, I do have a lot of trans clients too.

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Obviously, and that's partly why I did this.

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I go into this career because I wanted to I wanted to be able to help.

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But um, I did have a lady who was 102 recently come into my office.

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Y'all, if I'm 102, I'm rocking a beard.

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Just will let you know.

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That's too too no, no torture at 102 to my neck, but that's a whole other story.

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But anyway.

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Totally.

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Yeah, crazy, crazy.

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What are you gonna say, Murph?

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I I was just gonna say, you know, um, part of that it is the the issues that we're talking about in terms of like, you know, trying to fit in and trying to make these things survival-led and and or not survival-led, but more authentic.

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Um you built a medical directory with one of our dear friends, Reagan, and I'm curious, like, what were the harm patterns that kind of led to that um list creation?

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Oh, it's like one of the best things I've ever done.

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It also is like there, if there's a good side to bipolar disorder, like it is it's getting something, it's it's mania, getting something insane done.

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I was like compiling that list for like, I'd wake up at like 8 a.m.

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and I'd work on it until 8 p.m.

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And I just, it was so important to me, like to get it done.

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And I it became a need because I run a workshop called Everybody Is a Babe.

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And I was working with people one-on-one.

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And every time I met with somebody, they're like, well, I'm dealing with this health issue, but I'm too scared to go to the doctor.

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Or I went to this doctor and they told me I had to lose weight in order to even see them the next time.

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They won't even see me for my issue until I lose weight.

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And I was like, that's not okay.

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It's not okay.

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We need to find you like a fat-friendly doctor.

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We need to find you somebody that is gonna treat what you're actually going through without prescribing something that is not helpful for anyone.

00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:09.920
So um I found Aubrey Gordon's uh list of community threads.

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Aubrey Gordon had posted about two different times about, hey, crowdsource, you know, uh doctors in your areas.

00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.759
And then someone would comment, do you have anybody in Arlington, Virginia?

00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:27.119
And then there'd be like, hey, I go see this awesome doctor.

00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:28.799
Here's my OBGYN.

00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:31.359
There was the Fat Friendly Docs.

00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:37.839
Um, there was um uh I credit everybody on there.

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:45.839
Nicola Salmon has the fat fertility places, Mia O'Malley also did community threads.

00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:57.039
There were just places from all of these different things, and I would find myself spending an hour and a half combing these threads, help trying to help the people that I was working with.

00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:09.200
And I would find and be like, okay, there's this person in Columbus, Ohio that somebody had a good experience with, you know, it was just like, you know, asking for scraps, you know?

00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:14.960
Um, and so I decided to compile everything.

00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:26.000
Um, and then I started a form where people can submit um their positive experiences, or be like, that person shouldn't be on the list.

00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.680
Um and then yeah, it's just grown.

00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:37.119
It has the, I think the main provider list for like PCPs has over a thousand um providers.

00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:41.920
And then I have a second page of specialists, which has about a thousand specialists.

00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.799
I have like there's people worldwide.

00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:49.359
You can find somebody, you know, in Canada, Australia, England.

00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:51.440
So it feels, it feels good.

00:18:51.599 --> 00:19:00.799
It feels like it's been very helpful to like tell my people who take my workshop to um reference.

00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.039
And I've I've received really good feedback.

00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:04.240
Actually, it was so wild.

00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:09.599
I just did, I hosted a poetry event in Seattle um a couple weeks ago.

00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:18.799
And I was talking to this woman who just she kind of stumbled in um and she was just doing poetry, and she's like, I've never, you know, I guess I really didn't know your music that well.

00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:23.119
I'm a um, I'm in the eating disorder world, the dietitian world.

00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:27.279
And I was like, oh, I'm like, that's actually like another facet of my work.

00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:34.000
Like I um I did something called the weight neutral leads list, and she was like, that's you.

00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:35.440
You did that.

00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:38.960
And it was like it was so gratifying.

00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:42.559
It was like my rock star moment, like a true rock star moment.

00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:45.279
She was like, We use that list all the time.

00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.160
We use that list in our clinic, we pass it around.

00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:50.160
Oh, that's incredible.

00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:51.839
And it makes me so happy.

00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:52.799
Definitely.

00:19:53.039 --> 00:20:17.039
Well, and to know that you're not only helping from the super creative, amazing side with your music and your art, and then you know, the the factual, you know, black and white, find somebody, like it's so cool that you have um that nimbleness and that people, you know, like you're hitting it on so many different levels.

00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:23.359
It's so cool because if someone doesn't find you in this route, they're probably gonna find you on the other route.

00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:26.720
It's fun, but there's also there's multiple Mary Lamberts.

00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:29.279
So who know, you know, who knows?

00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:30.799
Who knows who is who?

00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:32.960
Do I even know which one I am?

00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:33.920
I don't know.

00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:35.519
Are you AI, Mary?

00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:36.400
Maybe you're AI.

00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:38.880
No, deep fake, Mary.

00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:40.960
I hate AI so much.

00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:44.799
Every time it like shows up as like like you have to use it.

00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:46.079
I'm like, get out of here.

00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:48.880
No, my brain is precious.

00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.279
Stop taking away my original thoughts.

00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:51.759
Right.

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:54.480
Mary, do you know about the new list they're working on now?

00:20:54.640 --> 00:21:09.759
Reagan and Julianne and a bunch of other people were all as a collective calling all these different hospitals and stuff to find out how big their MRI machines are, and they're trying to Reagan emailed me and told me that that was that was underway.

00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:15.519
And I was like, super like, yes, we need to combine forces.

00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:35.119
That kicked everything off, really, was the my experience getting an MRI and um being rejected, and having gone through the whole process of like getting out of my clothes, I had a I had torn my MCL.

00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:41.039
I tore my MCL, I was in like pain, I couldn't walk on it, I didn't have any answers.

00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:48.880
And you know, not only did they not have scrubs that fit my body, which was crazy to me.

00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:54.160
Um yeah, the scrubs like went up halfway to my butt.

00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:57.599
And so it was just like, whatever, I just need to get this done.

00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.680
I'll I'll humiliate myself.

00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:00.559
I don't care.

00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:02.400
I just need to get the scan.

00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:18.559
And then to not even get the scan, it was just like, I just remember crying and the tech, you know, she kind of looked at me and she was like, you know, this this coil, this, this thing is is tied on even me.

00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.799
And I was like, you know, she said, Don't feel, don't feel bad, don't feel bad.

00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:24.559
And I was like, I don't feel bad.

00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:29.119
If you see that we have a different body size, why would you put me through this?

00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.960
Why would you make me go through this if you understand and know that?

00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:35.839
I'm not I'm not upset or embarrassed.

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:36.559
I'm mad.

00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:38.640
I'm mad that you would do this.

00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:42.720
And I had a moment where I was like, I'm just gonna cry in my car.

00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:46.240
Like, let me just hold it together so I can just cry in my car.

00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:50.240
And then I had this like epiphany of like, who am I protecting?

00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:54.400
Who am I protecting with like keeping my tears to myself?

00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:56.640
Like, this has caused harm.

00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:01.599
Like you caused harm, and I'm I'm not gonna protect you from it.

00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:06.240
Like, I'm gonna have feelings about it because I don't want you to do this again.

00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:07.839
Don't do this to people.

00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:08.400
Right.

00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:09.599
It's traumatizing.

00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:14.000
It's bullshit that a medical provider can't accommodate our bodies.

00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:17.440
It's not like, oh, I'll just come back when I lose 100 pounds.

00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:19.839
No, fat people fucking exist.

00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:24.559
How about be prepared for us because we are the majority of the fucking population?

00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:25.599
100%.

00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:27.039
Absolutely.

00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:40.079
Yeah, I mean, and it's like that's a thing too, is like it's not it's not going into Prada and being like, I why don't you which honestly fuck like Prada should have our side, you know what I mean?

00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:40.960
Like, why not?

00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:47.519
But this is a medical thing, like medical accessibility is like that's number one.

00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:49.839
Like pretty basic, pretty basic.

00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:50.880
It's a necessity.

00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:52.319
Yep, yeah, yeah.

00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:53.200
Well, I love that.

00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:55.759
I love that y'all are making that.

00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:57.279
It makes me so happy.

00:23:57.759 --> 00:23:59.599
We have to brag about our Asherly.

00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:06.319
Asherly uh created a list for um Oregon and Portland and that area.

00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:11.920
So um I I think you guys might probably have similar, you know, people on the list.

00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:13.839
You guys might have to fuse that list too.

00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:14.240
Yeah.

00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:15.440
Oh my god, I want to.

00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:17.039
Yes, I would love to.

00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:18.880
That's great to do it.

00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.480
PNW Fat Friendly Medical Provider Directory.

00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:23.440
Yes.

00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:24.880
That's awesome.

00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:25.680
That's good.

00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:30.000
I was just gonna say, you you mentioned um everybody is a babe.

00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:39.440
So can you tell us a little bit more about that and um just like how long it's been going on and what it is so that folks can go explore it?

00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:40.319
Yeah.

00:24:40.559 --> 00:25:02.240
I mean, I started my like fat positive journey um in like 2011, um, after being around Denise Jolly and Sonia Renee and like and Rachel Wiley and Rachel McGibbons and just seeing how um possible it was to love myself.

00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:07.039
Um at that time, I was so committed to dieting.

00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:09.920
I was so committed to being in a smaller body.

00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:12.799
It was something I thought about constantly.

00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:15.200
I had an eating disorder.

00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:19.759
It was like food was something I was obsessed with that I always thought about shape.

00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:21.359
I was always wearing shapeware.

00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.680
I wear shapeware under t-shirts.

00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.920
I was, it was just exhausting.

00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:29.759
So exhausting.

00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:38.559
It was torturous, and it was it wasn't just that, it was like just how I was perceived and that that's just sort of obsession.

00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:48.640
Um and I went over to a friend's house, a fr my friend Sean, and they had on their fridge riots, not diets.

00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:52.160
And it just like blew my mind.

00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:53.839
Like I was like, what what do you mean?

00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:54.960
Why wouldn't you diet?

00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:59.839
If you're if you're bigger, I don't understand why you wouldn't be trying to lose weight.

00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:01.839
I don't see what's so bad about that.

00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:03.599
It's better to be thin, you know.

00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:06.559
And then I had my education.

00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:08.799
It was like, you gotta learn.

00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:09.839
Yeah.

00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:41.119
And then I got thrust into the public spotlight as, you know, performing with Madonna at the Grammys and performing with Jennifer Hudson at the VMAs and doing all of the press and then signing to the label and going through that process of loving myself on a public stage was I mean, it was challenging, but it was also the best possible thing I could have done because I wanted to do it right.

00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:51.920
I don't think there's a right way to do it, but I wanted to be helpful to people the way that Denise Jolly and Sonia had been for me.

00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:58.640
And I remember seeing also Substantia Jones's um at a positivity project.

00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:08.079
And I remember looking at those photos after I had been like, I'm body positive, I'm, you know, so I'm a bigger girl, whatever.

00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:18.480
And I remember looking at those photos and being like, oh, I'm uncomfortable and I'm I'm envious and I'm and I I don't get it.

00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.480
I don't see how someone could be happy in a body like this.

00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:24.079
I don't I don't understand.

00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:31.279
And I think they're lying because I still had all of my internalized fat phobia and that I still had not addressed.

00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:40.880
And it, you know, I went through a period where I would go to I go to a store and I'd be like, wow, they have plus sizes if they went up to 2x.

00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:45.680
And it would be like, they're so size, they're size accepting here.

00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:46.160
Wow.

00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:51.440
And I was starting to compile my own list of, you know, like plus size stores.

00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:53.519
Like, I'd be like, go to Zara.

00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.680
They have plus sizes.

00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:59.519
But it was like insofar as it applied to me.

00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:29.920
And I think it was, it wasn't until I started really diving into fat liberation and really realizing how much the disability justice movement informed fat liberation, how much, you know, the examining white supremacy and all of the, you know, the caste system that, you know, Isabel Wilkerson talks about, like all of that, the hierarchy hadn't occurred to me.

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:35.920
And the proximity to whiteness or the proximity to thinness were almost synonymous.

00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:43.200
And I had not realized how much I was still clinging to the scraps that I had.

00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:50.000
And that was going, that was never going to be true happiness.

00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:54.400
That I was never going to find true liberation or freedom from that.

00:28:54.559 --> 00:29:00.160
And it was also not going to be helpful as somebody that was at the time like a public figure.

00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:04.799
Um, so just diving, and I just like read a bunch.

00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:14.240
And um during the pandemic is when I started doing um heavy research and decided that I wanted to do this workshop.

00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:16.160
So that's initially how it started.

00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.240
So I launched it in 2021.

00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:23.920
I was just gonna sneak in a comment that there's somebody here who might have been photographed by substantia.

00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:25.759
Who that might that be?

00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:26.880
It was me.

00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:42.720
Um my uh my uh for one of my first um kind of steps into um body positivity, fat liberation, that sort of thing was I did some modeling and um I had met some different people in that process.

00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:48.880
And um Substantia was going to be coming out to San Jose, and I don't live far from there.

00:29:49.119 --> 00:30:11.839
So um Crystal had her at her house, and I was able to do um individual photos, and then she did the Valentine's Day series with myself and my my partner and um That was really liberating to just sit in somebody else's backyard completely naked and just like ooh, like feel the air and like not be, you know, scared of what was going on or how it looked.

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:28.319
Cause I just kind of exactly what you said, you know, like I'd seen her photos initially and it just kind of like this is so jarring for me to like see this and and really recognize like wow, this has this has opened my eyes to this whole different lens of life, right?

00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:34.720
Of like just like this exists and these people are sexy, and how did I not see myself like this?

00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:38.400
So um, yeah, Substantia's uh one of our favorites.

00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:44.240
We we've had her on the podcast, and um, she's just she's so creative and so amazing.

00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:52.480
And um, I could see where you know a lot of people have that that look of like, wow, this opened my eyes and this is so different.

00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:55.440
I think a lot of people have that with your art too.

00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:58.079
Oh, that's that's very generous.

00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.039
I appreciate that.

00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:04.799
But yeah, that series actually, the Valentine's series, I include that as an exercise in the workshop.

00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:10.720
Visit this, visit Substantia Jones's work and write down how it makes you feel.

00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:26.400
And if that's an oh if that's an alert to you that you have more work to do or you know what that says to you, like commit, commit yourself to to seeing more fat bodies, to like exposing yourself to that.

00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:46.400
I mean, I just I feel like we've gone so backwards in so many places where the visibility, the representation is there for for the people, for the people that want to see it, but for the greater public, when it's you know mainstream, there it's just not there.

00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:55.839
And um, and especially like I'm a big reality TV romance, I mean Love Island, The Bachelor, all of them, any, any romantic thing.

00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:57.759
I'm just like, I just love it.

00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:08.400
And to just think of how many seasons of The Bachelor there have been and The Bachelorette and Love Island, and not a single fat person has been on.

00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:11.519
And I also understand why they're not gonna choose the fat person.

00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:19.119
The fat person's gonna, you know, they have to have everybody look kind of, you know, but body diversity is so normal.

00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:22.880
And I think that's what a lot of people yes, a hundred percent.

00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:34.000
Like, I think that's what you know frustrates me and is is what I I really urge people to think about that people are fat for as many reasons as people are thin.

00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:36.079
We're not all meant to be thin.

00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:43.519
Like it is, it is like make peace with your body and don't like declare stop declaring war.

00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:46.559
Like it is a it's a gift to be alive.

00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:53.759
And how much space I now have in my brain to do things.

00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.480
I'm growing corn, okay.

00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:59.759
I'm growing, I have a feeling sunflowers.

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.759
I'm like, I'm gonna feed this whole block.

00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:04.960
That's what I'm doing.

00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:06.559
I got plans.

00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:08.640
That's incredible.

00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:15.359
Um, you know, we're big sexy chats, so we talk a lot about intimacy and and sex and all those fun things.

00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:28.000
Um talking about, you know, really starting to accept your body and recognizing um that there is body diversity and that sort of thing, what would you say surprised you most about your pleasure journey?

00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:47.359
I think the most powerful, like formative thing was that someone that chose to be with me intimately wasn't doing it by act of charity, which is what you think.

00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:55.039
I mean, it's uh it's what you think when the world tells you that you're, you know, not good enough or lovable.

00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:58.319
Yeah, or you should be you should be smaller.

00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:06.960
That um, you know, I'd been in relationships where someone would be like, I mean, you're hot, but imagine how hot you would be if you lost some weight, you know.

00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:09.920
That was like, what do you do with that?

00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:11.199
How do I hold that?

00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:16.079
How do I feel safe intimately, you know?

00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:17.519
Bye-bye.

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:19.440
Yeah, that's horrible.

00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:21.039
That's next, is what I say.

00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:21.519
Next.

00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:22.559
Yeah, that's horrible.

00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:25.119
Are you gonna do any more Babe Camps just to go back to that for real quick?

00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:28.079
Are you gonna do any more of the Babe Camp or are you gonna retire that?

00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:32.400
I released a self-paced course, so I'm I'm encouraging that.

00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:40.159
Um, every year I say this is gonna be the last year because I can't because I end up putting the album aside or I kind of put my other work aside.

00:34:40.400 --> 00:35:12.800
But I literally just had we had our last session um yesterday, and I was just crying, and it's like it's just a big cry fest because everybody is like, you know, connected and everybody's friends and they love each other and they're like, I love you, room two, you know, and they have their inside jokes, and I just love them and I love them for like for trying and for being open to learning things and for you know, for committing to to loving themselves radically and trying.

00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:18.079
There are some people who've taken the workshop every single time I've I've run it, which is like 10 cycles.

00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:19.599
I used to offer it.

00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:23.760
Um, if you took it once, you could take it again as many times as you wanted for free.

00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:26.960
I stopped doing that because I was I was losing money.

00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:33.360
Um, but uh so now I think I'm gonna do it once a summer.

00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:35.920
So I plan on doing it next summer again.

00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:37.280
That's the plan.

00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:38.719
That's awesome.

00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:52.159
And I think people forget how much of a healing space there is in community and um having, you know, like my so in therapy, it's like trying to get someone to go to group is like pulling teeth, right?

00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:53.440
Like, I don't want to go to group.

00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:54.400
It's so stupid.

00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:55.599
I can just do it on my own.

00:35:55.760 --> 00:36:05.519
But it's like you're missing a whole element of community there and and um building that, having other people that you can talk to and have those, like you said, those little moments.

00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:07.840
Um, it's it's so helpful.

00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.239
I I really I'm glad that you're doing it.

00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:12.800
And if you retire it, at least you have the self-paced one.

00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.840
Like, you know, it's still good out into the community.

00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:17.039
Yeah, I appreciate it.

00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:20.239
It's kind of like going to an L non meeting, my first Al Anon meeting.

00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:25.519
I was like, holy shit, other people had the same life as I I had no idea.

00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:28.480
I was like literally, you could have knocked me over with a feather.

00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:29.440
I had no idea.

00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:31.679
I thought it was just my weird life, you know?

00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:32.639
Totally.

00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:37.280
I feel like that's such a huge component of it, is just being like, oh, I'm not alone in this.

00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:42.159
And I think there's a feeling of like, okay, my suffering is not unique in this way.

00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:55.360
And if it's not unique, and we all need help, and we all could use therapy for this, and we've all been harmed by the system in this way, then maybe the onus isn't on me.

00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:58.480
And maybe the issue it doesn't have to do with my body.

00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:02.960
Maybe at there's actually an issue with the culture at large.

00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:14.880
And I get to be a part of um a group of people that say, I'm gonna in my circle, it's not gonna be okay.

00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:18.239
Body shame is gonna stop in my circle, you know.

00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:43.599
Um, and and you know, a big tenet of the workshop that I try to do is really strip away all of the metrics that we use to evaluate ourselves, especially, you know, I call it aesthetic indifference or that weight neutrality, and um, and you know, like maybe do a mirror moratorium or whatever it is, or um, and then, you know, desirability is just like it's a hell of a drug.

00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:58.559
And I understand why people, you know, pursue weight loss because the it is you are so conditioned to believe that that is the only way that you will be desirable to people.

00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:00.239
And it's just not true.

00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:16.400
Now being in like, you know, having had relationships or being in a sexual relationship with somebody who really does like my body really is about my body, and it's not like it's not an act of charity.

00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:26.800
It's not, it's not someone just being like, I guess I'll just deal with this because I like your personality and you have a good, you have good inner beauty.

00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:37.440
You know, it's like, no, I'm also sexy and a like a sexual human being and deserve to have, you know, positive sexual experiences.

00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:38.639
And that is possible.

00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:47.039
And I think I can't remember who wrote the article, but I think Caleb Luna posted it.

00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:52.880
Oh, I wish I could remember who wrote it, but it was basically about, or maybe Caleb Luna wrote it.

00:38:52.960 --> 00:39:20.800
I can't remember, but it was basically about why do we categorize things as fetishist when they're not dominant, when they're not of the dominant, you know, if if you're not attracted to white, straight, you know, thin, blue-eyed people, you are considered, it's considered devious, you know, that like if you're attracted to a fat person, it must be fetishist, you know?

00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:33.599
And and that really opened my eyes to just being like, yeah, I mean, this this fear for a lot of fat people, like, well, if somebody's pursuing me because I'm fat, like that, that feels bad.

00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:37.519
And like, I think I used to feel that way, and now I don't feel that way.

00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:54.239
It's like, no, then I know that I can be myself and that I don't have to, you know, I don't have to, they're not secretly, you know, fingers crossed, hope you will lose weight during like hope I can love you enough for you to lose weight.

00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:55.360
You know what I mean?

00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:02.239
So it's it's it's it's important, it's just important to find somebody who likes your body.

00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:03.199
It gets weird.

00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:05.119
It gets weird when it's all they're into, right?

00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:09.519
If they only date fat people or they only are that to me feels fetishy.

00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:13.360
But I'm attracted personally, I'm attracted to people of all different sizes.

00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:18.960
So I mean, I assume if you're in bed with me because you're you're into me, not because of my fat.

00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:20.880
Yeah, absolutely.

00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:29.119
How would you say desirability and sexiness, all that sort of thing plays into your music and your art?

00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:34.639
Like, I'm I'm curious, like, what do you consider even like the sexiest lyric you've ever wrote?

00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:42.320
You know, I've I've released or I've I've written a lot of songs that never got released, especially when I was on the label.

00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:44.880
I worked with some like EDM artists.

00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.920
Um, and so I wrote like a very sexy song that never got out.

00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.960
Um that immediately comes to mind.

00:40:53.519 --> 00:41:02.079
Um and I'm trying to think of I'm trying to think of one of those lyrics, but I'm just a sappy, I'm just a sappy Sally.

00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:17.280
Like I think, you know, on my first my first LP, I wrote a song called So Far Away, and that um chorus was Kiss Me Like the World Is Gonna Disappear.

00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:22.960
And and like, you know, that kind of passionate, fiery kind of thing.

00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:24.960
I guess that's the sexiest one I can think of.

00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:30.800
But you know, it's really interesting because I started writing songs when I was nine years old.

00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:39.119
I yeah, I wrote my first song when I was nine, and then when I was 13, I had a collection of six, and I was like, mom, I'm ready to be famous.

00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:40.800
Let's find me an agent.

00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:42.559
Um, can we call Oprah?

00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:43.840
Like, what do we need to do?

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:46.320
And I just was like, I was just ready.

00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:47.599
I wanted it.

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:59.039
And um, I found that it was a way to get people to like me, where I'd bring my guitar to school, or I'd be like, everybody, come to the piano.

00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:04.159
And if I had a crush on somebody, I'd be like, I'm gonna, I wrote a song about you.

00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:12.320
And it was like it was a way for me to feel like I had a sense of value.

00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:26.639
And I think it's it's been hard work to also disentangle my self-worth to the art I make, which does feel like it is a part of my soul.

00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:36.800
It is important to me, but I can't, I had to let go of it as a as a way, as a tool to get people to like me or to, you know.

00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:47.280
And I would find like there was a I remember I was really into this girl, and she wouldn't, she was not into me, and then she'd see me play, and then she'd be like, I want to fuck.

00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:54.800
I'd be like, Okay, that's fine, and then you know, and then it'd be like, no, not really interested in you see me perform again.

00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:58.559
Okay, I want to date you now, and like that's hard.

00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:01.360
And also I was like, I'll accept it.

00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:02.559
That's fine.

00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:07.519
I'm curious, like, what's a song that makes you feel sexy?

00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:11.199
What what kind of music if you can't pick a song?

00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:14.559
I mean, I love I'm like an instrumental person.

00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:15.360
It's so funny.

00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:21.360
I was like, I was looking for like a sexy playlist, you know, the other night, as one does.

00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:28.639
And um, and I I am so I get so distracted by sound.

00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:30.559
You can't have lyrics, obviously.

00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:33.679
I can't have lyrics when stuff's going down.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:47.840
And if anything gets like cheesy or it's a weird, like, you know, a midi sound or like you know, like a fake saxophone, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to stop that nighttime activity to skip it.

00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:52.480
Yeah, so it gets it can be very distracting.

00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:57.440
But if you've got a good one, so I do have, I have I have a playlist, a curated playlist.

00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:13.920
Um I really love um I think it's Romanas Gutierrez, um, just like really vibey um uh guitar, like um, what kind of guitar is that?

00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:15.360
Classical guitar.

00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:17.039
Like that's nice.

00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:18.159
That's a good vibe.

00:44:18.719 --> 00:44:19.920
Sexy vibes.

00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:31.280
Are you willing to put that playlist uh on your your website so that we can all go and download the curated sex playlist from Mary Lambert?

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:33.920
Festivities, professities.

00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:37.760
Mine's like uh Prince, you sexy motherfucker.

00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:38.719
So I don't understand.

00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:41.199
I do not really you like the lyrics.

00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:42.239
I can't say the lyrics.

00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:43.039
What about you, Murph?

00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:43.920
Do you have one?

00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:46.239
Um, I kind of like a mixture of both.

00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:57.920
I think you know, but I uh very much like Mary, like I want it to be kind of softer, you know, uh have like the the vibe beat kind of thing matter more than the the lyric.

00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:03.679
Yeah, because yeah, it's really easy to get pulled out of something when you're hearing other words and things.

00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:04.880
So I I get that.

00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:12.400
I think I think too, as I've like begun and started producing and composing.

00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:18.239
I composed for a documentary film a couple years ago, and I've produced for other artists.

00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:22.400
So I have my home studio and I, you know, I engineer.

00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:30.960
And now that I have like I feel like my ear has been tuned and also ruined for like just enjoying things.

00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:33.199
I can't just enjoy anything anymore.

00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:36.639
I'm like, oh, I just I feel like that could have been EQ'd differently.

00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:38.639
Or like, what are they doing to the vocal?

00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:43.760
Like, I mean, fix your auto tune, like spend an extra day fixing your auto tune for fuck's sake.

00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:52.960
So, like, so I'm just I if it if it's on during like a a like sexy time, I'm like, I can't help but think about it.

00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:55.840
I like pure silence, nothing.

00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:01.039
Just the sound of a a boot stuck in mud, only wetter.

00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:03.679
There's a comedian that said that.

00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:07.760
And it just makes me think of like, yeah, just want to hear the raw sounds.

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:10.719
Yes, no, no, uh, no macaroni sounds for you.

00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:11.519
Yeah, macaroni.

00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:12.320
Yeah, macaroni.

00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:14.159
Well, and I'm a I'm a talker too.

00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:16.079
Like, I need to I need to be able to ex.

00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:17.280
I'm very expressive.

00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:21.199
I need to validate, and I also want to just tally.

00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:23.119
I mean, I'm like, I like this.

00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:24.719
I, you know, I want this.

00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:25.920
This is good.

00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:27.440
That's perfect.

00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:28.000
That's great.

00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:32.639
You own your own sexuality, you own your own, your own pleasure in your climax.

00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:33.039
Yeah.

00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:33.760
Absolutely.

00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:34.960
I'm into it.

00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:43.280
Well, the final question that we always ask is um a sex-related question, and I'm curious your answer.

00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:51.360
So um, it's favorite sex toy, sexual aid, um, lube, or intimacy tip that you would want to give us.

00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:55.840
And you can give us all if you really wanted to, but something in those lines.

00:46:56.079 --> 00:47:03.119
And Mary, I just want to share with you that Tigris Osborne, Reagan Chastain, they've all shared these things with us for the most part.

00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:04.559
So don't be shy.

00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:07.760
Okay, I have like so many thoughts and so many things I want to share.

00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:22.400
The first is like, this is not me, but it is it's one of my favorite moments of my life of, you know, when you're just like a horny kid and you're just like any scrap of like any sexual.

00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:28.400
I mean, I don't know how kids are now with like such easy access to the internet or Pornhub or whatever.

00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:33.119
But when I was growing up, like there was not like we could not, we did not have anything.

00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:42.880
My I used to babysit for a for a woman who was a lesbian, and um she, I was probably like 12.

00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:54.480
And I and she she went to work and I just went through her like bookshelf and then I saw the joy of lesbian sex, and I was like, holy shit.

00:47:54.639 --> 00:48:05.519
And I was just so excited to find diagrams or anything, and there was just very few things, and then I opened this chapter, chapter seven, was the joy of pubic hair.

00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:21.280
And and there was just like it was, it was uh the description was like pubic hair can be very sensual, and you might even consider braiding it or putting a little bow on.

00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:24.000
And I was like, is this what lesbian sex is like?

00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:28.079
It's like braiding each other's hair in this way.

00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:32.079
But it's also very, very, very fuck the patriarchy, which I love.

00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:38.880
But you know what, what is true is I really do like pubic hair.

00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:41.039
So that that is uh that is a thing.

00:48:41.199 --> 00:48:42.960
Um, but let me think.

00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:56.480
I I think my favorite, I there's um there's a dildo I really like that um my partner and I found, and it's called the boss.

00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:01.039
And it is just it's like curved perfectly.

00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:11.840
It's like a very good like texture, it's great in the strap, and it is just really it's just it's a good time every time.

00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:14.480
Mary, do you know who makes that one?

00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:15.760
No, I don't even know.

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:16.320
Do you know?

00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:17.679
I don't.

00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:18.800
The boss, huh?

00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:19.519
That sounds good.

00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:20.800
The boss great name.

00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:23.599
I know, and it's hot pink, it's really beautiful.

00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:24.800
Oh hot, yes.

00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:26.960
Yeah, the boss gets shit done.

00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:28.559
Hell yeah, a boss bitch.

00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:30.320
I don't know about you, but I'm a boss babe.

00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:32.000
Yes, exactly.

00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:32.960
Yes, okay.

00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:33.840
I want to see.

00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:38.079
Um I'm looking it up because now I want to from Fun Factory.

00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:39.360
Oh, okay, yeah.

00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:41.360
German, German company.

00:49:41.679 --> 00:49:42.239
Wow.

00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:46.480
Perfect for size scenes, it says screens, yeah.

00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:47.679
I love it.

00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:52.159
And yeah, your partner is open to sex toys, clearly.

00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:53.760
Yes, thank goodness.

00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:57.360
Yeah, but you know, I did not used to be open to sex toys.

00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:00.320
Like I was very like, I was a purist.

00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:00.960
Oh, yeah.

00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:13.599
You know, it was just more like I want to feel you, I want to feel like the person that I'm with, and like, you know, it was just very much hands mouth, those sort of things.

00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:23.760
But sex toys are um they're like a teammate, they just kind of help out the get you to the goal, they don't replace the person.

00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:30.000
Yeah, because they're not warm, they can't kiss you, they can't hold you, but they can get the job done.

00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.880
They're really good, they're a good team player if you need one.

00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:37.760
But um, yeah, they're we you know, we I I've been selling sex toys for like 22 years now.

00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:38.159
Uh-huh.

00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:39.440
So I'm a big fan.

00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:43.360
But yeah, I used to do a lot of home parties and I would do home parties for for gay women.

00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:47.920
And I would meet these women, they're like, oh no, I can't have anything that penetrates my vagina.

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:51.119
Um, we're we're gold star lesbians or something like that.

00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:51.920
I was like, what?

00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:55.840
Why, why, why turn down any kind of possible pleasure?

00:50:56.159 --> 00:51:02.960
And you you so I would think that you both might want to try to wear a strap on, you know, but they were like, no, we don't do that.

00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:04.239
I'm like, how sad though.

00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:05.599
Don't don't limit yourself.

00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:07.840
There's it's a lot of fun out there.

00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:15.039
Yeah, I feel like I've I've been with with plenty of people that would not prefer penetration or don't.

00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:23.760
And I think it's like I think there is some amount of like, it's not for that, you know, and it is not, it doesn't feel good.

00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:35.039
It's not validating gender-wise, you know, that it actually is not, it doesn't feel like the best possible way to give and receive.

00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:39.280
And it I I um I can understand it, you know.

00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:40.559
Yeah, I can see that too.

00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:43.519
Just like, but there's like have you been to a hustler store?

00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:45.599
I'm like, I want to try every single thing in there.

00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:46.480
It's true.

00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:56.800
I mean, and I do, I wonder if there is some, there's some like maybe, you know, emotional stuff there or the, you know, the patriarchal like association.

00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:05.679
Um, but you know, I I I think about this a lot of like my own kinks and my own my own relationship to my sexuality.

00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:07.360
So I came out in 2006.

00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:14.079
I came out when I was 17, and I remember being like, because I was I was sexually abused.

00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:21.280
I was sexually abused by my dad, and I was I was um I experienced a sexual assault when I was in high school.

00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:29.679
And I had all of these horrible associations with men, with guys, and and and specifically a penis.

00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:30.400
You know what I mean?

00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:34.960
Like it it was it was the experience of being violated.

00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:39.519
And I remember this feeling of like, is this why I'm gay?

00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:44.239
Like, is uh do I need to resolve this thing?

00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:53.760
I mean, because that I growing up Christian, I grew up Pentecostal and then I became like an evangelical, you know, Christian.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:00.079
And um, and you were just sort of taught that that was something you needed to heal.

00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:13.280
And if I just heal that enough, if I just if I, you know, work with God, pray, then I will heal that wound and I will find a husband.

00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:15.199
And well, duh.

00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:17.119
That's what everybody's goal is, Mary.

00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:18.639
We have to land a man.

00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:19.840
But I don't know.

00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:33.599
I I remember that feeling of yeah, just kind of agonizing over why I was gay, and then eventually getting to a place of it doesn't matter.

00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:34.960
It actually doesn't matter.

00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:43.760
I could be there are plenty of people who are gay that haven't been sexually abused, you know, like it actually doesn't matter.

00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:48.960
And I am fine, I'm like, I am happy as I am.

00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:51.039
I feel incredibly fulfilled.

00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:55.519
I have I have loving, you know, I have a loving relationship.

00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:57.039
I've had loving partners.

00:53:57.199 --> 00:54:00.639
I've been a like I'm I'm lucky.

00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:05.119
I I feel happy and safe and great about it.

00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:12.559
And there's no like I can heal that wound of having sexual trauma and still be gay.

00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:16.239
It's kind of like the old trope about why people are fat.

00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:27.760
You must have been abused, or you were assaulted, or you hate yourself, or you're trying to solve some wound by overeating so people won't look at you, or whatever all those bizarre things are.

00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:31.039
It's very it sounds very similar to your yes.

00:54:31.280 --> 00:55:00.639
I actually I talk about that exact thing in my workshop because Judith Matz and I, well, she wrote the article for psychology today, but referenced some of my quotes, in which, you know, talking about that's that is all under the presupposition that um fat people are undesirable, which is just like and what says who says fucking who.

00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:08.000
And yeah, maybe maybe it's trauma leads us to coping mechanisms.

00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:11.360
Some of those coping mechanisms can be emotional eating.

00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:24.719
And if you if that can be a part of it, but to like assign someone's body to a trauma, then what are we saying when we look in the mirror that my body is representative of a trauma?

00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:27.440
Do I really want to take care of a body that way?

00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:41.920
Am I really gonna want to like go outside and be seen or like go to the doctor or have clothes that fit me or honor myself if my body is representative of what happened to me when I was six?

00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:43.599
Absolutely not.

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:45.519
It is my body.

00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:52.000
And like that is, I think it's an incredibly harmful thing that I think a lot of therapists do.

00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:56.880
I think a lot of therapists, Gabor Mate is the one that talks about it.

00:55:57.039 --> 00:55:59.760
Bessel Vanderkoel talks about it.

00:55:59.920 --> 00:56:08.079
And it is, it's a really, I think it's a really harmful thing to assign to people and to not to not consider it.

00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:09.119
Absolutely.

00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:11.119
Just go in a bit deeper, you know.

00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:12.239
Exactly.

00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:13.119
Exactly.

00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:25.440
And it not not allowing things to frame the the whole it, you're like taking in the whole problem and just like, oh, this is it, like correlation is causation kind of thing.

00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:30.880
And it's like, no, you're not taking a holistic approach to how this person has lived their life.

00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:42.239
I always say to to patients, you know, it's like you may have learned a coping skill that is not helpful to you now, but you needed that skill to survive to get through to the place that you are currently.

00:56:42.639 --> 00:56:50.639
And it's so frustrating to hear, you know, people just like gloss over it or assign it to just like, oh, well, this equals that.

00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:51.920
Absolutely.

00:56:52.159 --> 00:57:06.639
Well, I mean, just the amount of like thin people I know that have been sexually abused, like it's not, and I think, I think it's just like, yeah, hey, we're all we've like 75% of us have been harmed in some way.

00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:10.400
Like we're all we've all dealt with it in different ways, you know.

00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:14.000
And as absolutely, oh, we need to heal.

00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:20.000
And I want to make the music that helps heal, and I want to do the work that that heals.

00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:21.280
Um the tempest.

00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:29.760
Yeah, my mom said that a psychic told her when I was born that I was I was a lucky healer.

00:57:30.320 --> 00:57:31.119
I love that.

00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:33.679
A lucky healer.

00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:35.039
That's beautiful.

00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:37.440
That's a good tattoo idea, too.

00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:38.559
There you go.

00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:39.760
Yeah, yeah.

00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:44.079
I want to get a tattoo that says genetic code because that's why I'm fat, motherfuckers.

00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:45.360
It's called genetic code.

00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:45.920
Yes.

00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:46.320
Absolutely.

00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:47.679
You in you in with me, Murph?

00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:48.239
Let's do it.

00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:49.360
Let's go.

00:57:50.639 --> 00:58:03.920
Before we wrap up, I just wanted to ask, because yeah, I know your your Babe Camp and your your work is really about helping people to care for themselves in a you know, healthy-ish, as healthy as possible, whatever healthy means way.

00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:12.880
If you wanted to give a piece of advice to our community, because we know your community um, you know, probably has really good tools already, but what could we tell our community?

00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:14.559
What's a good way to take care of themselves?

00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:20.800
What's a good way a self-care act they could do that would maybe help them with their own internalized fat phobia?

00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:26.400
I mean, I think a huge thing for me was physically just touching all parts of my body.

00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:33.440
I think what happens when we have so much shame looking in the mirror is is that we're scared.

00:58:33.599 --> 00:58:34.239
We're scared.

00:58:34.400 --> 00:58:41.760
There's the the shame is so loud that you want to avoid not just looking at yourself, but feeling yourself.

00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:48.719
And I think like just touching your arms, feeling the size of your arms, feeling your belly, touching your belly.

00:58:48.880 --> 00:59:02.880
I mean, I had a practice for about a year where I would, I, I would take a bath, I would wash every part of me in a very loving way, and I would just out loud to each body part, I love you, arm.

00:59:03.199 --> 00:59:04.960
Thank you for carrying me through this world.

00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:06.239
I love you, belly.

00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:08.719
Thank you for carrying me through this world.

00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:15.920
Um, and that was a really important ritual to my to to loving myself and then getting rid of my scale.

00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:17.440
I mean, that was huge.

00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:21.039
Um, I have so many, I have all my little tips.

00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:22.880
They're great, they're fantastic.

00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:24.639
But that was a big one, yeah.

00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:27.440
Throwing away your scale is it's hard for a lot of people.

00:59:27.519 --> 00:59:42.000
I uh even some of my best friends, I'm like, y'all, we you you're they're great allies to me and they really care, and they're allies for everybody who are fat, but then they still are addicted to getting on the scale.

00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:46.559
So, um, Mary, where can people find you?

00:59:46.719 --> 00:59:48.320
What would be the best avenue?

00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:52.800
I know that go through all of them, but what's the best way to connect with you?

00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:59.840
My website has everything all together because I do so much stuff, so it's a it's the best way to sort of find all the different facets of.

01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:00.719
Of what I do.

01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:03.119
And that's MarylambertSings.com.

01:00:03.519 --> 01:00:10.079
Um, but I'm most active on Instagram, and that's at Mary LambertSing with no S.

01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:15.519
Um, and uh and Facebook as well at Mary Lambert Sing.

01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:22.960
And um, and I'm trying to do more TikTok stuff, but it's it's so overwhelming.

01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:31.599
And you're gonna be giving voice lessons or teaching singing or oh my god, I started teaching voice lessons and it is the best thing I've ever done.

01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:32.559
I love it.

01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:33.280
I love it.

01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:34.719
I'm always supposed to do this.

01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:37.199
I was just made to be a teacher.

01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:43.039
It's like all of my my grandpa was a teacher, my grandma was a teacher, my great grandpa was a teacher.

01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:53.760
So it was like all it's in my in my family, and I just love teaching, and it is so fun to sing with people.

01:00:54.000 --> 01:01:09.840
And I have like I have I've developed my own, you know, style, and I try to make it fun and make it, you know, we end up singing a song at the end of our lesson, and it's just been it's been fun and great.

01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:13.440
I think teachers are angels on earth, they're amazing.

01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:20.639
Just the amount of work that angels or that teachers and nurses have to have to do, but that's so cool.

01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:24.719
Singing with you must be like the highlight of their day or week or month if they get to do that.

01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:25.760
That's cool.

01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:30.559
It's really sweet because I can tell that people are like, oh my god, it's Mary Lambert.

01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:36.159
And they have to kind of you have to get over that because we're gonna, I'm gonna make you do weird things with your voice.

01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:42.800
And I have I have some bizarre warm-ups, and I just we're gonna get weird together, is the thing.

01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:46.000
I feel voice lessons are in Asherly's future.

01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:48.079
Come on, let's do it.

01:01:48.320 --> 01:01:49.039
I love it.

01:01:49.280 --> 01:01:55.199
Well, Mary, this has been an absolute pleasure, and I have so many other questions.

01:01:55.360 --> 01:01:57.920
So, can we guarantee a round two at some point?

01:01:58.239 --> 01:01:58.800
100%.

01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:00.320
This has been a blast.

01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:00.960
Yeah.

01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:01.599
Yay!

01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:03.360
Yeah, thank you guys for having me.

01:02:03.679 --> 01:02:06.800
The world needs more fat liberation and more community.

01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:15.840
Speaking of which, we are having an event called Fat Joy October 19th, and Tigris is our keynote, and Murph is going to be one of our speakers as well.

01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:21.440
And I I saw a quote that you said something about how much joy is on the other side of shame.

01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:22.559
I love that.

01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:24.639
Yeah, yes, it's true.

01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:24.880
Yeah.

01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:28.320
If you're in San Jose, you're invited, you could be uh you'll I'll comp you.

01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:29.280
I'll comp you a ticket.

01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:33.920
If you're in San Jose October 19th, we'd love to have you because fat joy is so so rare.

01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:35.199
We all need more of it, right?

01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:36.719
And um, yeah.

01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:40.000
Are you making a music video for Tempest or have you already made one?

01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:40.960
I need to.

01:02:41.119 --> 01:02:56.239
It's you know, it's like the the true, like the real price of being an artist is really, it's just just I mean, I think it would be awesome to make a video, but I don't want to like half-ass it and I would like to have a budget for it.

01:02:56.320 --> 01:02:58.079
And there's just I just don't have the money.

01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:02.719
But I I'm hopeful with doing voice lessons and getting more gigs.

01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:05.599
I would love to, I would love to make it.

01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:09.280
But it is, I'm just I'm happy paying my bills right now.

01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:11.599
Like that's what I can do right now.

01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:16.480
And um But seeing you at your piano just playing that song is freaking moving.

01:03:16.719 --> 01:03:18.880
Yeah, I would love, I would love to do it.

01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:20.320
It's just it's time.

01:03:20.559 --> 01:03:25.199
I mean, it's like you know, paying the the video person and the editor and all of it.

01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:28.880
And um, but I I ought to.

01:03:29.199 --> 01:03:35.679
I want I want to, I desperately want to because it's the single and it's you know it's important to me.

01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:37.519
Visibility for sure.

01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:39.519
Yeah, fat bodies representation.

01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:41.039
Absolutely.

01:03:41.280 --> 01:03:42.079
Well, wonderful.

01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:45.920
Um, you can find us at bigsexychat.com.

01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:48.639
You can find us on all the socials, big sexy chat.

01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:51.119
We love to hear from our listeners and our community.

01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:54.320
You can always email us at big sexy chat pod at gmail.

01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:56.719
Well, I'm just gonna go ahead and wrap this up.

01:03:56.960 --> 01:03:58.320
See you later, alligator.

01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:00.159
After a while, crocodile.

01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:01.920
Take care, polar bear.

01:04:02.239 --> 01:04:03.039
Love it.